Fascinating conversation with Karam. What is religion as risk management? Jordan Peterson got close to it with Sam Harris but not quite there. Nasim Taleb's work comes in. Also Chesterton's Fence.
Notes
Hasim Taleb’s work
Implications of religion over generations
JBP and Sam Harris
How JBP would mention the importance of an embodied individual to act in the world and not just have beliefs. One of the gaps was the simple notion of going to church on Sunday.
Atheists who enroll their children in Catholic school.
That priest really believed what he was doing.
Nasim Talib writes about.
Religion as risk management.
How do I insure the survival of my offspring throughout time?
Glimpse of that in some conversations, Risk management through government
Risk was not being properly addressed.
Loaded gun analogy, that’s risk management
Metaphorical truth is risk management
Still part of him that is “superstitious” can’t point the gun
Risk of losing your life, and losing your identity
Need to act differently towards those
There is something about the religion that maintains order, community, other stuff, whether you understand what it’s doing… you’re not smarter than tradition, certain milestones, this explains a lot about tradition, conflicts,
Simple solutions to problems that you don’t have to encounter in life.
Don’t want to risk
Chesterton’s Fence
Passage from isaiah, locking yourself in your home until the wrath passes
Is Modernity flattening everything out so much that we think we have a handle on it.
We perceive it as being flattened out more than we think
People don’t believe that we need religion anymore
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phm46X_-mio
Pandemic has the lovely effect of focusing one's mind. Eric Weinstein and Daniel Schmachtenberger (and I thought I had a long name...) had an amazing conversation about avoiding the end of the world. What is interesting (as it almost always is) is what they hold in common. Their visions of "the good" are deeply shaped by Christendom.
In many ways they are running parallel to Ross Douthat's Decadence book. Douthat is of course a committed Roman Catholic and he has a very interesting podcast conversation of his own.
All this points to the unfinished business of Christian theology which is eschatology.
Portal 27 https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kast-media-2/the-portal-2/e/68383234
the Fifth Column Podcast http://wethefifth.com/episodes/172-the-fifth-column-podcast-sinking-in-the-swamp--tp4k9-n4pt4-6hmg5
Neal Plantinga Not the Way It's Supposed to Be https://amzn.to/34eiUKm
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Join the Sacramento JBP Meetup https://www.meetup.com/Sacramento-Jordan-Peterson-Meetup/
Paul's Church Content at Living Stones Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh7bdktIALZ9Nq41oVCvW-A
...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsvG3zbKGa4
Bret noticed on social media that friends and church members were not only falling victim to cheap conspiracy theories but also propagating them. He wanted to talk about the patterns of conspiracy theories and I wanted to broaden it to my broader topics of religion, thinking in community, narratives and the church. We had a great conversation.
Suspicious minds, Why we Believe Conspiracy Theories https://amzn.to/36gj5FY
Awakening from the Meaning Crisis Vervaeke Episode 13 https://youtu.be/vGB8k7jk1AQ
Bret Salkeld Transubstantiation https://amzn.to/36fhAYt
Neil Shenvi Critical Theory as Conspiracy Theory https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1262403206560321536.html
Shenvi Apologetics https://shenviapologetics.com/
My talk with Neil Shenvi https://youtu.be/2qwYx2OGNEk
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...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8YcHV5xuPY
This is our third meetup report from the Southern California leg of our tour.
March 2 Tucson AZ: https://www.meetup.com/Tucson-ConverZations/events/268937092/
March 4 Bellflower CA: https://www.meetup.com/Jordan-Peterson-Appreciation-Society/events/268965849/
March 5 Chino CA:https://www.meetup.com/Jordan-Peterson-Inland-Empire-Meetup/events/268564977/
March 14 Fresno CA: https://www.meetup.com/Fresno-Jordan-Peterson-Meetup/events/267837868/
March 15 Sacramento CA: https://www.meetup.com/Sacramento-Jordan-Peterson-Meetup/events/267806924/
March 16 Salem OR: https://www.meetup.com/Salem-Jordan-B-Peterson-Meetup-Group/events/269089771/
March 17 Seattle WA https://www.meetup.com/Icon-Church-Cultural-Meetups/events/269046699/
March 18 Vancouver Burnaby BC: https://www.meetup.com/Burnaby-Jordan-Peterson-Meetup/events/268839207/
March 19 Portland OR: 7pm at Oak Hills CRC: http://www.oakhills-church.org Evening with PVK, Peter Boghossian and Benjamin Boyce https://www.meetup.com/Salem-Jordan-B-Peterson-Meetup-Group/events/269089771/
March 21 Alameda (SF Bay) CA: https://www.meetup.com/Alameda-Jordan-Peterson-Meetup/events/268833352/
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmt9jp6FGDU
@Jonathan Pageau was on @Bret Weinstein channel https://youtu.be/9NYz1DJ4ByM
I'm just now getting around to the commentary on it. It was set up by a previous conversation with @Jordan B Peterson https://youtu.be/0cLLFSdKZLI
Now almost 5 years later things have changed for both of them but they are still missing each other on what they mean by the most basic terms between them.
I use CS Lewis to highlight why "Literally false metaphorically true" is not a great phrase to talk about what Bret wants to point to.
CS Lewis Miracles https://amzn.to/38JMb62
Vance Crowe Podcast with Michael Levin https://pca.st/31zzqio4
Michael Levin on @Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal https://youtu.be/Z0TNfysTazc
Discord link. Good for just a few days. Check with more recent videos for a fresh link. https://discord.gg/fC3h7dVQ
Vanderklips channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX0jIcadtoxELSwehCh5QTg
My Substack https://paulvanderklay.substack.com/
Estuary Hub Link https://www.estuaryhub.com/
If you want to schedule a one-on-one conversation check here. https://paulvanderklay.me/2019/08/06/converzations-with-pvk/
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVmQd1jawMw
I've spent nearly 2 years now working through the work of Jordan Peterson and John Vervaeke. Part of what their work has in common is called the frame problem. Human beings can't see and interact with the world without a frame but the framing of the world through something in the world is roughly equivalent to what Christianity calls idolatry. Christianity I believe asserts that God is the only frame that finally works in a world that is combinatorially explosive. I think this insight helps to explain a number of assertions in the Bible and Christian theology including the fact that God is everywhere, and in another sense nowhere, that God is not an object in the world, and that you can't see God and live.
Conversation with Christopher Mastropietro https://youtu.be/0h_6xrLP4Ac
Conversation with Guy Sengstock https://youtu.be/7dshAsIDP7I
JBP and Vervaeke Feb 2015 https://youtu.be/-RCtSsxhb2Q (the Frame problem and meaning)
Notes
Is Relevance Realization God?
How to explain the emergence of mind?
Homunculus fallacy
How does intelligent emerge out of processes?
No essences to fittedness
Replace a Newtonian way of thinking with a Darwinian way of thinking
Sacredness and the Sacred
There is no essence to relevance
The inexhaustible moreness of reality
Jonathan Pageau
John Hicks
William James
Idolatry
Machinery
God is the ancient answer to the framing problem
The worst things come from the best things turned bad
Pluralism
Bret Weinstein
Creating god in the internet Age
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...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqinRbjqy2c
More events happened on Sunday after the conference including this worship service. This is just the sermon. The whole service is found on the channel too.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyKCNYQm-nw
@DeepTalksWithPaulAnleitner Dr. Chris Green | Christianity & The Complicated Cowboy Myth: Jesus, John Wayne, & Masculinity https://youtu.be/sE130bXDHro
The Quest for a Spiritual Home Conference with PVK, Jonathan Pageau and John Vervaeke by Estuary Chino May 18 to 21 2023 Link for tickets https://events.eventzilla.net/e/estuary-chino-2023-2138601197
Vanderklips channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX0jIcadtoxELSwehCh5QTg
Bridges of Meaning Discord https://discord.gg/gxM3TBN9
https://www.meetup.com/sacramento-estuary/
My Substack https://paulvanderklay.substack.com/
Estuary Hub Link https://www.estuaryhub.com/
If you want to schedule a one-on-one conversation check here. https://paulvanderklay.me/2019/08/06/converzations-with-pvk/
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...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5PIvN8u0jU