The ascription of attributes to some (lingual) variable (x) which is supposed to ACTUALLY represent a (non-existent) 'thing' is contra to the idea of ascribing attributes to an existing 'thing'. This is akin to assigning attributes to the 'bust of Beethoven's' body . The bust of Beethoven's body wore a green suit' and we can button up this never existing body's green suite whilst depriving "it" a red suit. ... is but an exercise in imagination . And so the question of 'who?' when discussing an "un-conceived body" is also but an exercise in imagination and has no serious, logical, or sensible ramifications, as there is no signified to the signifier 'it' or 'that'. Since there exists no actual physical signified beyond a lingual symbol/word the transitive lingual action is as good as an intransitive. I.e. 'suffering came upon the un-conceived' compared to 'suffering came' . Yet it aka this type of imaginary transitive pointing to a lingual variable as a basis from which to start a supposedly 'serious' philosophical discussion begs debaters of antinatalism to put it forth as a serious bases from which they want other debaters to stand upon and partake in an argument.. The Benatar argument starts with 2 premises which most people seem to 'simply' accept as not only reasonable, apriori but as obviously the case. There is no reason to assume these 2 premises out of hand as being 'always enduring truths'. -Only thing to add is that I myself am limited in what I'm saying here. I can't say that all that i'm saying is gospel or logically solid, and in that, even though i think I wade through some interesting points, for a large part, I'm not to be considered with any greater seriousness than what i criticize. Oh, and the title is sort of a joke for those who don't get that. antinatalism anti natalist benatar derived energy debate monisn inmendham dospook ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndc31SGCb0o

My discourse on ideality found or framed defining the past to present relationship and the margins of presence becoming unconscious while intention becomes the future present. See the work of Henry Staten for similar considerations. ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T0tJ3sXnRA